This is a response to "The Ethical Knower: Rethinking Our Pedagogy in the Age of Trump" by Elana Michelson. We appreciate Michelson's critical evaluation of the appropriateness of transformative learning and the use of personal narrative, as well as the frames and tools she offers to help us deal with current challenges such as "epistemological chaos" in the "age of Trump." Michelson's distinction between epistemological and hermeneutic analysis, as well as her conception of meaning perspectives as social/cultural foundations of identity, are helpful insights. The educational practices she finds disturbing are indeed ineffective approaches to teaching, and we are inspired by her invitation directed to "us as a community to struggle toward a more honest assessment of how our field might better respond to the phenomena that led to the age of Trump." In this response, we talk further about some points made in Michelson's article, elaborating on several issues and offering alternative perspectives that we believe may be productive paths forward. We do this in three parts, by (a) engaging in a critique of some of Michelson's statements and positions, (b) elaborating on the conceptions of transformative learning in practice, and (c) expanding on the discussion of epistemological and hermeneutic analysis. [For "The Ethical Knower: Rethinking Our Pedagogy in the Age of Trump," see EJ1218327.]